ER Blaxxun Competitor

[Sarah]

Are you against a non blaxxun browser browsing your world? or are you against any browser using your world if it is not using a specific chat server? or is it purely because it is a private world?

The problem is not the browser nor "private or not".
ER is a fun system, people will play with it ten minutes or more.
I do want prepare "3D themes" for ER.
But special themes to sell, not to give.
And their approach (take all they found without ask nor pay) is really a shame.
They base their business on the works of others without ask nor pay. What's the name for such a method, mmmmh ?

[Matthieu]

Sarah:

Et avec ER, Matthieu, n'importe qui peut agrémenter son site avec ton monde.
Tu commences à saisir ? Ce n'est pas une question de liste. Te laisses pas déconcentrer

(et autres remarques des autres intervenants)

Je vois parfaitement bien la différence. Le net est un domaine particulier, on peut y publier n'importe quoi y compris de monstrueuses âneries, c'est aussi le domaine du pillage organisé.
Je vois aussi la différence entre les annuaires qui pointent vers "contact.html" facilement identifiable, et un site qui pointe vers un "xxx.wrl" qu'il peut présenter comme le sien.
S'indigner ... bon, pourqoi pas. Reste à trouver une mesure efficace, genre signature visible dans la scène, ça ne sera pas joli mais c'est faisable et facile, ou un script qui redirigerait automatiquement vers le "contact.html" et ça je ne sais pas faire. Evidemment je suis d'accord.

[Arsène]

Reste à trouver une mesure efficace, genre signature visible dans la scène, ça ne sera pas joli mais c'est faisable et facile, ou un script qui redirigerait automatiquement vers le "contact.html" et ça je ne sais pas faire. Evidemment je suis d'accord.

La mesure est en route : il lui reste juste un petit bug pour les utilisateurs de FF.

[jordi_hiperia3d]

Rory Hart, the Head of Development of ER, has given an answer today in the comments of my article. This note has also be sent to some virtual worlds forums.
They provide you two ways to prevent your objects and models to be incorporated to their search engine: the robots.txt file and the referrer in the http header.

This is a good starting point to correct something that has upset many worldbuilders, and I congratulate Rory Hart for this act.

I published it in this article:
http://news.hiperia3d.com/2008/09/solution-from-rory-hart-of-exit-reality.html

As requested, here's my feedback:
"ER should not index anything without the prior consent of the builder. The builder should not do anything to prevent this.

Other software companies, like Vivaty or 3DXplorer, have their own object catalogs built by themselves, or rewarding the creators (that have previously given permission to use their objects and scenes).
ER takes a great advantage over these other companies taking objects for their software without asking.

This is not how copyright works. You should ask first, and then use -- not the opposite: use first unless I forbid you to do it.

Anyway, Hiperia3D News' purpose is just give the news, not to take part on anything of this. Now it's time for worldbuilders to negotiate this. ER has taken a first step and one thing is for sure: they listen the feedback. "

[Sarah]

For me, I fear it is too late.
They should have negotiated before launching their spider.
Now they compel us to act for disindex.
We are not there to repair their nonsense.

[thom256]

Hi,

We use a crawler to collect urls of wrl files for linking in our web 3d search engine.
Its useragent string is ExitRealitySearchAgent.

This crawler obeys the normal robot.txt set of rules for search engines as described
in:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robots.txt

To address the issue that has been describe on this forum I suggest these entries to
tell the ER spider not to index vrml worlds on your domain:

User-agent: ExitRealitySearchAgent
Disallow: /*.wrl$

User-agent: ExitRealitySearchAgent
Disallow: /*.wrz$

To ensure your site is crawled quickly I would also suggest submitting your domain
for a priority spidering at the following url once your robot.txt file has been
updated.

http://www.ER.com/submiturl.php

Also I noted Paul Aslin's post on the public web 3d mailing lists in regards to vrml
browsers providing referrer in the http header. We already provide a referrer in the
http headers when our browser makes a request. This contains the referring file
(whether it is html or vrml) and was implemented to help prevent deep linking.

Your webserver can be configured to disallow deeplinking by checking this referrer and
constraining it to referrers that you allow. Configuration of this is dependant on your
hosting service and the type of http server they use.

All this information will be fasttracked to our knowledgebase the assist others who
share these concerns.

We have read your comments on our web 3d search and are discussing your suggestions. I
would like to take this opportunity to state our intentions for the web 3d search. We do
not intend it to pass off others work as our own, rather the search is meant to provide
an accessible way for people to find and view 3d content.

Thanks for your interest and please feel free contribute feedback.

Rory Hart
Head of Development
ER
http://www.ER.com

[Arsène]

In the Script nodes, is it limited to ecmascript or Java is also possible ?

I suppose you don't provide any external scripting facilities through EAI/SAI ; am I right ?

I know, it's very specific ; but scripting is my speciality as well as Java.

[jordi_hiperia3d]

Again, my feedback:

"ER should not index anything without the prior consent of the builder. The builder should not do anything to prevent this.

Other software companies, like Vivaty or 3DXplorer, have their own object catalogs built by themselves, or rewarding the creators (that have previously given permission to use their objects and scenes).
ER takes a great advantage over these other companies taking objects for their software without asking.

This is not how copyright works. You should ask first, and then use -- not the opposite: use first unless I forbid you to do it.

Anyway, Hiperia3D News' purpose is just give the news, not to take part on anything of this. Now it's time for worldbuilders to negotiate this. ER has taken a first step and one thing is for sure: they listen the feedback. "

[Taranis]

J'ai fait un gros effort : j'ai utilisé leur formulaire de contact pour leur demander de supprimer mes liens et ceux du serveur :

Code: Tout sélectionner

Subject : Please erase our links

Hello

Please erase in your DB all the links pointed on .wrl and .wrz files you have found on our website szarah.org and on our server Alpheratz (revemonde.net and all subdomains).
All this targeted material is copyrighted and cannot be used without prior explicit authorization.
Also we do not tolerate deep linking.

If you use a spider to collect URL of 3d-files, please send us its name or something usefull to banish it.

Thanks in advance

Contact : []

J'espère que ça liquidera le problème.

Je remarque ce matin que la requète revemonde ne renvoie plus aucun résultat sur leur piètre moteur de recherche ( screenshot1), alors qu'il y avait pas moins de 122 réponses le 22 septembre (screenshot2).
Cependant les url apparaissent toujours dans les mondes proposés sur la page d'accueil sous le lien "popular" (screen3)

[Matthieu]

On pourrait utilement cesser de parler de copyright, c'est une loi américaine qui n'est pas applicable en France.
En revanche le droit français reconnaît un "droit d'auteur" qui est un droit "par défaut" : il n'y a rien à déclarer, demander ou déposer. Il s'appliqe en particulier à nos images, nos 3d, nos mondes.

voir : http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/info ... /index.htm

[Taranis]

Hi,
We use a crawler to collect urls of wrl files for linking in our web 3d search engine.
Its useragent string is ExitRealitySearchAgent.
This crawler obeys the normal robot.txt set of rules for search engines as described
in:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robots.txt
To address the issue that has been describe on this forum I suggest these entries to
tell the ER spider not to index vrml worlds on your domain:

Code: Tout sélectionner

User-agent: ExitRealitySearchAgent
Disallow: /*.wrl$
User-agent: ExitRealitySearchAgent
Disallow: /*.wrz$

To ensure your site is crawled quickly I would also suggest submitting your domain
for a priority spidering at the following url once your robot.txt file has been
updated.
http://www.ER.com/submiturl.php
Also I noted Paul Aslin's post on the public web 3d mailing lists in regards to vrml
browsers providing referrer in the http header. We already provide a referrer in the
http headers when our browser makes a request. This contains the referring file
(whether it is html or vrml) and was implemented to help prevent deep linking.
Your webserver can be configured to disallow deeplinking by checking this referrer and
constraining it to referrers that you allow. Configuration of this is dependant on your
hosting service and the type of http server they use.
All this information will be fasttracked to our knowledgebase the assist others who
share these concerns.
We have read your comments on our web 3d search and are discussing your suggestions. I
would like to take this opportunity to state our intentions for the web 3d search. We do
not intend it to pass off others work as our own, rather the search is meant to provide
an accessible way for people to find and view 3d content.
Thanks for your interest and please feel free contribute feedback.

Rory Hart
Head of Development
ER
http://www.ER.com

Have you been to a "high level marketing school" ? Sounds like it... Politician !
By the way, there is NO other link than http://www.robotstxt.org/ to get a real idea of what it is.
Here's my code :

Code: Tout sélectionner

User-agent: ExitRealitySearchAgent
Disallow: /

You don't deserve less.

[marco]

En francais je vais faire des effort pour que thyme puisse traduire !!

Thyme comme l'a si bien fait jokina, aucun builder n'est contre une ou plusieurs images du monde présenté.
Mais là , si j'ai bien tout compris, ER veux 'bookmarker' outes les adresses de monde 3D en vrml2/x3d , et permettre à tous de les voir (ici, ca ne me pose pas de probleme)

Mais là ou ca me pose probleme c'est que sur d'autres pages de leur site(website) ils disent vouloir permettre à tous l'utilisation des mondes presentés
ET LA NON !!
Evoluta , n'est pas libre de droit (not public domain) j'hesite deja personnelement à utiliser pour starenda le constructeur d'evoluta (alors que j en suis un des 3 createur)

Alors si c ets pour faire une simple liste comme celle de jokina avec des images, et le lien vers nos mondes ok !! et longue vie a ER
Si c est pour afficher nos mondes sans dire qui les a fait, ce qu il a de technologique et pourquoi ce monde est differents des autres , non !!!
Et dans ce cas la ( A MORT ER !!)

J espere avoir ete clair !!

¨Ps: pour sarah ou un bon en anglais si vous pouvez traduire ?
ca serai encore mieux

Bisous a tous
Marco votre nounours
Marco your teddy

[Sarah]

ER est un catalogue de mondes et d'objets ... qui ne lui appartiennent pas.

- ER propose à n'importe qui d'utiliser un de nos mondes pour décorer son site.
- ER propose à n'importe qui de modifier ce monde.

Sans demander l'avis de l'auteur.
C'est une attitude pour le moins cavalière, illégale et indéfendable.

Les détails, inutile d'en parler : non citation de l'auteur, non-liaison vers le contexte original ... C'est inutile parce que ça donnerait l'impression qu'il y a quelque chose de négociable.
Il faut s'en tenir à l'essentiel, qui est : non respect des droits d'auteur.

Bien sûr que nous avons déjà trouvé des parades.
Ce qu'il faut faire, c'est prévenir le plus de builders possible et les informer des moyens de sortir du stock de ER.
Après, c'est à eux de décider.

[Taranis]

J'y suis aussi allé de ma poche sur le formunaire de contact de ER :

Code: Tout sélectionner

Dear sir or madam,

I noticed you use my copyrighted material on your site, offering it to anyone and leting them believe they can be the owners of my work, as you do.
This copyrighted material is located on the site taranisprod.net and on the revemonde server (taranis.revemonde.net).
For the moment I had to put my work offline, and try the "solutions" you generously offered a posteriori ( robots.txt, ban http referer ).
This is not a solution as long as you did a big mistake first, ignoring laws about copyrighted material.
I hereby ask you to erase all links to my work, and make it not reachable from your site.
I let you a week from now (26th of september 2008) to do so.


Copie à globalstructure:

Code: Tout sélectionner

Request to ER - copy to host manager

Dear sir or madam,

Here's a copy of the message I sent this morning to ER.com contact page.
They use copyrighted material on their site you host.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear sir or madam,

I noticed you use my copyrighted material on your site, offering it to anyone and leting them believe they can be the owners of my work, as you do.
This copyrighted material is located on the site taranisprod.net and on the revemonde server (taranis.revemonde.net).
For the moment I had to put my work offline, and try the "solutions" you generously offered a posteriori ( robots.txt, ban http referer ).
This is not a solution as long as you did a big mistake first, ignoring laws about copyrighted material.
I hereby ask you to erase all links to my work, and make it not reachable from your site.
I let you a week from now (26th of september 2008) to do so.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--
Taranis Prod , prestation de services en infographie pour le patrimoine et l'archéologie.
http://www.taranisprod.net/

[Sarah]

[ HS ]
Dois-je vous dire combien je suis satisfaite de toutes ces initiatives persos qui partagées forment un collectif d'intervention qui se montre déjà efficace ?
On a des procédures pour le retrait, des parades pour empêcher de nouveaux pillages ...

C'est ça, le travail d'équipe : chacun bosse pour tout le monde et merde aux profiteurs et aux pique-assiettes !

Merci les gars !
[ /HS ]